Tag: Matthew Bidwell

Not Ready to Retire

828023.TIFThe American dream of working three or four decades and then retiring to a life of well-earned comfort is no longer an option for a surprisingly large number of workers.

According to a new report from The Conference Board titled, “Trapped on the Worker Treadmill,” people between the ages of 45 and 60 who have experienced a job loss, seen their salary reduced or watched the value of their home decline are “much more likely” to consider delaying retirement. More specifically, The Conference Board states, “of respondents aged 45-60, the percent that plans to delay retirement has gone up 20 percentage points in two years.”

This is despite a much-improved economy – including higher housing prices, an upswing in the stock market and increased hiring.

“It’s disconcerting that the two years in which the U.S. economy seemed to finally, if fitfully, turn the corner also left so many more workers compelled to change their retirement plans late in their careers,” says Gad Levanon, director of macroeconomic research at The Conference Board and a co-author of the report, in a quote on the association’s website. “This may benefit some businesses and industries, by reducing labor shortages and skill gaps as experienced workers stick around. At the same time, their delaying retirement can be a significant obstacle to the many companies seeking to cut costs.”

A major factor contributing to the survey’s findings “is the continued depletion of savings,” according to The Conference Board website. “The U.S. recession officially ended in July 2009 and the stock market has rebounded strongly since then. In 2012, however, 62% of 45- to 60-year-olds reported at least a 20% decline in the value of their financial assets since the start of the crisis — up from 42% in 2010.”

“People are finally realizing that living to 120 (which the actuaries are forecasting) is going to be very, very expensive,” notes Olivia Mitchell, Wharton professor of business economics and public policy. “Accordingly, a few more years of work can provide the degrees of freedom many need to offset declines in housing values and 401(k) account balances. Also, medical care costs are going through the roof, which is enough to make many think twice about leaving jobs with health insurance coverage. And finally, the recent research suggests that working longer makes for healthier lives, which may be quite attractive to many.”

Kent Smetters, Wharton professor of business economics and public policy, agrees. “Probably only about a third of baby boomer households have an adequate amount of saving for retirement anyway,” he says. “Of course, part of the reason might be that many people have been out of the market and have not enjoyed recent stock returns. Another reason might be a general fear of risk. But one reason might simply be that as more people approach retirement, they are finally looking at the numbers and simply realizing that they never saved enough in the first place. Most have not.” 

Related to this, Smetters adds, is that “in the old days of 5% interest rates, people used to think that retiring with a million dollars was adequate, because they could safely get $50,000 per year without dipping into their principal. They now realize that they need a lot more since interest rates are so low.” 

Wharton management professor Matthew Bidwell wonders about one of the report’s numbers. “Hopefully, people who are 45 are not planning to retire imminently, so this is not necessarily a comment on their immediate situation, but rather it is tapping into a broader set of beliefs about how their lives will play out,” he says. “It may reflect a general erosion of trust in the ability of the current set-up, in terms of savings institutions and entitlements, to provide for them as they retire.” 

The report’s findings also raise the issue of whether more and more young people are being kept out of the job market – and delaying their own careers — because older people are hanging on longer. Not necessarily, says Bidwell. “I think economists would argue that people who are delaying retirement are doing so in order to earn, and spend, more money than they otherwise would be able to. That spending money ultimately creates jobs.” 

Adds Mitchell, who is also executive director of The Pension Research Council: “The idea that there is a fixed number of jobs has long been discounted by economists. Rather, the labor market tends to be very flexible, so the prediction is that more older workers will [likely] be absorbed relatively easily. In fact, in countries which encourage earlier retirement ostensibly to ‘make way’ for the younger folks, it proves to be very expensive to pay for all the retirement benefits. [Then] tax rates rise so much that it discourages younger employees from working.” 

Which industries are likely to benefit more than others from this trend of delayed retirement? “Probably the industries in which customer care matters – retail trade, service sector – where older employees tend to be more polite, patient and have better phone manners” than younger employees, says Mitchell.

 

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Why Walmart Is Enlisting Veterans

walmart newWalmart’s announcement yesterday that it would offer jobs to veterans may well be a good business move as well as a way to bolster its recently tarnished image. A strike last October by Walmart workers in California extended to the day after Thanksgiving at locations across the U.S. The protests were chiefly over wages and working conditions.

Walmart said it would offer a job to any honorably discharged veteran in his or her first 12 months off duty. It expects to hire up to 100,000 veterans in the next five years. “Hiring a veteran can be one of the best business decisions you make,” said Bill Simon, the company’s U.S. president and CEO, in yesterday’s announcement. He noted that veterans have a record of performance under pressure, and are quick learners and team players. He also sees them as “leaders with discipline, training and a passion for service.” Walmart today needs the “seriousness and sense of purpose that the military instills,” he added.

Peter Cappelli, director of Wharton’s Center for Human Resources, feels veterans bring “personal discipline.” Matthew Bidwell, Wharton management professor, rates Walmart’s move as a “great initiative” from a company with reputation issues. Below are excerpts of comments from Cappelli and Bidwell on Walmart’s announcement:

K@WToday: Are there good business reasons for a company to hire veterans, or does it serve mostly as a public relations gesture?

Cappelli: It does both. The jobs Walmart has are not ones that require a lot of skill. What they require is personal discipline, and veterans are more likely to have that.

Bidwell: I think it is a PR gesture and something that may well support the business. Veterans may often have developed important skills in the military, and they represent an important pool of labor. Walmart’s size combined with its high turnover rate mean that it always needs to hire large numbers of employees. Going to veterans as an important source makes sense. Of course, they would have been hiring a lot of veterans anyway. What is interesting is that it is offering to hire any veteran who wants a job. That’s what is eye catching here. 

K@WToday: Do veterans bring some special qualities? Are they particularly suitable for functions like HR or quality control? 

Cappelli: I don’t think Walmart is thinking about [tying] all its jobs to this promise. I’m sure it refers to front-line workers in stores. [“Most of these jobs will be in Walmart stores and clubs, and some will be in distribution centers and the Home Office,” says the Walmart statement.] 

Bidwell: Obviously the military trains very well for some roles. It’s worth remembering how broad the military is, though, in terms of all the jobs that it encompasses. That makes it quite hard to generalize. 

K@WToday: Is there a downside, however small, to hiring veterans? 

Cappelli: None that I see. Veterans are like other people, just pre-screened and given experiences that create personal discipline. There are veterans who have problems associated with combat, but there are non-vets with problems as well. 

Bidwell: None. One other point: This is a great initiative by Walmart, but/and it comes from a firm that generally has a poor reputation on employment issues. On the one hand, this could help to improve its image. On the other hand, it would be even better if a firm that was known for treating its employees better was showing this interest in veterans. 

K@WToday: Will veterans need special training to work in the corporate sector? 

Cappelli: There isn’t a lot of training in these jobs, for veterans or non-veterans. 

Bidwell: Corporate life and the different nature of authority and obedience can take some getting used to. Most people, however, don’t have too much trouble with that.

 

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Do Women Shy Away from Promotions?

Deirdre Woods, former associate dean and chief information officer at Wharton, made a point during her years as a senior manager of encouraging other women to advance in their professional careers. One thing has always surprised her, however.

Women who are offered promotions “generally feel they need to know 80% to 90% of their current job before they feel ready to step up into a new role,” she says. But if you are smart and knowledgeable, “probably somewhere closer to 40% to 50%” is all that you need.

Men, on the other hand, feel no such constraints. “Men will start thinking about their next promotion right after they start their new promotion,” says Woods, who is currently interim executive director of the University of Pennsylvania’s open learning initiative and has started her own consulting company. “I’m not sure if men are necessarily more ambitious, but they are much more overt about having a plan and moving forward.” She remembers attending a conference where another woman made the same point, in a different context: In government, the speaker said, “a six-term congresswoman doesn’t feel she is ready for the Senate yet, whereas a first-term congressman does.”

It’s not just a phenomenon in the non-profit sector, according to a report last May in the Wall Street Journal titled “The XX Factor: What’s Holding Women Back?” The article quoted an executive at Google saying that the company “must invest extra effort to persuade women engineers to nominate themselves for promotions…. Men jump at the chance, often before they are ready, and are often turned down.”

But women, the executive noted, “must be prodded.” Indeed, he tells them that by not putting themselves up for promotions, they are holding themselves back. “By the time a woman says she is ready, she was probably ready a year ago,” he said, adding that the company promotes women engineers at about the same rate as men.

Woods agrees. “Women tend to be ridiculously over-prepared for everything. But at a certain point, over-preparedness doesn’t get you moving forward. It doesn’t leave you open to other opportunities.” She suggests that women should be able to clearly define what type of job they want to do next. “They should be thinking about the next step even if it feels overwhelming.”

And “as scary as it seems,” she adds, women who do get promoted “should start signaling, at least to their bosses, that this isn’t the last thing they want to do. They should show they want to do a really good job in their current role, but that they also have ambitions.” In addition, she notes, men know that wandering around the office and chatting with their colleagues qualifies “as work. Talking to the boss, running into him or her at the coffee machine, having interactions – men understand that this is part of their work. Women don’t understand that. They think it’s a distraction from whatever they are supposed to be doing.”

Wharton management professor Matthew Bidwell suggests that there is “some evidence that women are held to a higher standard in the workplace than men, and that because women are stereotyped as less competent than men, any mistakes they make tend to reinforce those kinds of attitudes towards them as individuals. You can imagine that if this is the case, then it’s even riskier for women to take on that promotion.”

The Journal report was based on the comments of a task force set up to study the obstacles that women continue to face in the workplace. According to a McKinsey study quoted in the article, women get 53% of entry level jobs and “make it to ‘the belly of the beast’ in large numbers.” But then “female presence” drops sharply, “to 35% at the director level, 24% among senior vice presidents and 19% in the C-suite.”

The McKinsey study cited by the Journal article also noted that hiring and promoting talented women is important “’to getting the best brains’ and competing in markets where women now make most of the purchasing decisions.”

 

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The Discontented Thirties

According to a new research study by the Sloan Center on Aging & Work at Boston College, the people who are most satisfied with their jobs are older employees – those age 50 and up. The most dissatisfied? Those between the ages of 30 and 39.

Furthermore,employees age 40 and older are the most engaged and show the highest level of organizational commitment,according to the study,while those under 30 are almost as satisfied as the most satisfied group of 50 and older.

The study based its conclusions on work experience data from 11,298 individuals working for seven multinational companies at 24 worksites in 11 countries. 

So why is the 30-39 group so dissatisfied?

“That is the stage of life where people typically start a family and have young kids at home,” says Wharton marketing professor Cassie Mogilner. “Therefore, these people are more likely to feel the strains of balancing work and life, thus pulling their minds away from being fully engaged” on the job. In addition, notes management professor Nancy Rothbard, this age group “is in an intense career stage where they are often engaged in continued on-the-job learning, with greater responsibilities.”

Peter Cappelli, director of Wharton’s Center for Human Resources, notes that “life satisfaction seems to hit bottom [right around] age 30,” and may be related to the fact that these employees’ “expectations are not being met.”

But as employees’ children get older,says Mogilner, “those who are career oriented can get their minds back in the game and enjoy greater satisfaction from their work. Jobs provide a great source of self-definition,particularly when people are young and starting out their careers — and identifying what careers they want to pursue — and then again when they have fulfilled the toughest years of parenting.

“Employees who are working later [in life] and who are most satisfied with their jobs may reflect a case of self-selection,” she adds. “Usually by one’s 50s,if [a person] is working,she has likely climbed up the ladder to be successful in her profession. This group is likely to continue to work if they like what they do.”

As for Wharton management professor Matthew Bidwell, he is “a bit surprised by the results. My impression was that generally workers got more satisfied as they got older, and that the main reason for this was that they were generally moving into more rewarding jobs with higher pay and more responsibility. So I would expect job satisfaction to be lower for those under 30. In fact, if you look at the study, there doesn’t appear to be a statistical difference between the under 30s and the 30-39 year olds. So the results are consistent with the standard finding of job satisfaction increasing over time.”

Does the survey’s finding – that those over 50 are the most satisfied,and those over 40 the most engaged and committed – go against conventional wisdom that older workers are not as valuable as younger ones? What can be inferred from the study’s conclusions depends on what measure of engagement the authors used, says Rothbard. “It sounds like they used commitment as a proxy for engagement. So I think this more reflects the fact that those over 40 are more satisfied and committed to the organization,which can lead to greater workforce stability as it is negatively related to whether people leave.”

Bidwell says he wouldn’t “draw too much of a straight line between the commitment and value to the firm. Workers can be highly committed but also bad at their jobs, and vice versa. I’m not sure on the conventional wisdom about age. There are concerns that older workers will be less flexible than younger ones,but along many other dimensions including maturity, stability,knowledge, etc., you would expect them to outperform younger workers.”

Does the stalled economy affect these results, by, for example, creating a need for older workers to stay in their jobs longer,even as companies cut back on pay and promotions? Or is the 30 to 39 cohort always pretty dissatisfied with their lot? “I don’t think this is related to the stalled economy per se,” says Cappelli. ”After all, it’s stalled for everyone.”

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Four Days On, One Day Off

The dim job outlook for many employees has led to a resurgence in the idea of “work sharing” — in which employees work less than a full schedule and then apply for unemployment insurance to make up the difference in their paychecks.

An article in today’s Wall Street Journal notes that 22 states and the District of Columbia offer some form of work sharing, including five states that started programs since 2009 — one year after the financial crisis hit. In addition, President Obama has added a national work-sharing plan to his jobs package, which is now awaiting action by Congress, the article notes.

But work sharing has both advantages and disadvantages, according to employment experts. An obvious advantage is that by cutting back employees’ work week from five days to four or three, an employer can keep more workers on the job rather than laying them off. Another advantage, as the Journal points out, is that the program helps employees keep their skills up to date, even if they are working fewer hours. It also allows companies to adjust their employees’ hours to the ebb and flow of demand, cutting back when business is slow, and ramping up when it improves.

One disadvantage is the need for employers to spend time complying with the bureaucratic requirements of the program, according to the Journal, which cited a second downside: Avoiding layoffs means employees are delaying action that will help them find jobs in industries that are growing rather than stagnating. 

In the case of a Rhode Island manufacturing company used to illustrate the Journal article, work weeks were cut by one day, which resulted in about a 10% pay cut (provided employees applied for the unemployment benefits). Health benefits were not cut.

According to Wharton management professor Matthew Bidwell. “given what we know about the very high costs of unemployment to most workers, anything that keeps people … actively engaged in the labor market has to be a good thing. It guarantees that their skills don’t atrophy and that they don’t receive the stigma of unemployment that they would otherwise suffer.”

He doesn’t buy the criticism that work sharing delays a migration to other, more robust, industries.”In most cases, companies are laying off workers because of what is a somewhat temporary fall in demand, which is basically what a recession is. When the economy picks up, many of those firms are going to be looking to hire again. So I wouldn’t worry too much about the problems of reallocating workers. My sense is that that is a side story in this recession.”

Another benefit to work sharing, he adds, is that “it allows employers to hold on to good people. If the employers do expect to expand employment again if the economy improves, they will have to replace laid off workers with untested new hires, who will lack the detailed firm-specific knowledge of the laid off workers. Being able to hold on to more workers during the downturn means they don’t have to incur those costs during the recovery.”

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Job Hunting? Reach Out and Touch Somebody

When it comes to job-hunting advice, look no further than the past. A recent Wall Street Journal story profiled several depression-era job seekers who found work the old-fashioned way: by forging personal connections. Some went looking door-to-door; others asked neighbors for job leads or had friends and relatives advocate on their behalf for open positions. 

Showing up at offices unannounced with a resume in hand would probably not fly in this age of electronic communication and lowered face-to-face interaction, and most applicants are careful to heed the “no phone calls” addendum on nearly every job posting. Still, there is something to be said for maintaining — or forging — personal connections that might give one job seeker the edge over another, less visible “virtual” applicant.

That may seem obvious, but the Journal story cites a Brookings Institution paper which found that “today’s job seekers devote little time to their networks: Only 9% of their job search is spent contacting friends and relatives to find work, while 51% is devoted to finding ads and sending out applications.”

“It is certainly the case that personal connections play a huge role in finding jobs,” says Wharton management professor Matthew Bidwell. “A classic study in the 1970s concluded that over half of professional and technical workers had found employment through personal connections. We recently surveyed Wharton MBA alumni and [learned] that when they moved jobs after graduation, around 50% of those jobs were [landed] through personal contacts.”

The Journal story points out that those connections often entail social networking tools such as Twitter and Facebook — today’s version of going door to door, only faster. “Social networking tools can help by providing a way for information to move quickly through people’s networks,” says Bidwell. “A friend of mine found her job after her sister saw a request for potential hires that someone posted on Facebook. Because people update their status regularly, sites like LinkedIn can provide an easy way to check which of your friends are in positions where they might be able to help. Indeed, LinkedIn markets itself substantially as a resource for looking for jobs and for hiring.” That said, Bidwell adds, “it remains an open question whether the ease of contacting people over these sites limits the sense of obligation people have to their contacts, or makes people less ready to help them.”

Job seekers also should not underestimate the power of their connections to get them in the door of a company that might not hire them otherwise. “Most research on hiring suggests that employee referrals are taken very seriously,” Bidwell notes. “The big problem that employers face is learning how good candidates really are. Sure, they have the resume, but it tells them little about the intangible characteristics that they really care about, such as attitude, ability to work with others, etc. Recommendations from previous employers are supposed to help provide this information, but given concerns about litigation, those recommendations are often hard to obtain and even harder to trust. Against this background, employers are likely to take employee recommendations seriously.”

And, because employees will often have to work with the new hire, they are likely to be careful about whom they recommend, Bidwell adds. “That gives employers more confidence in what [these employees] say.”

 

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A Week of Violence in Not-so-cool Britannia

Britain’s cities are by no means strangers to riots. Only a few months ago, London was rocked by a spate of weekly riots as students took to the streets to protest rising university fees. But with the riots that erupted in half a dozen London boroughs (or districts) and several other major cities during the past week, “it’s the scale that has been so impressive,” says Wharton management professor Matthew Bidwell.

While it may be too soon to say how much damage — economic or otherwise — the riots have caused, guesstimates are being made. The Association of British Insurers, for example, predicts the damages and loss of business could cost Britain “tens of millions” of pounds.

“In a way, we could think of the riots as having an economic effect very much like a natural disaster,” says Geoffrey Wood, emeritus economics professor at City University’s Cass Business School in London. “Everyone is worse off, but output rises,” as the houses, offices, factories and goods destroyed are replaced. “Despite that appearance of increased prosperity, no one wishes for more natural disasters. The same is true of riots. They lead to increased output, but they do it by destroying wealth.”

But for now, the focus of much of the country has been on the causes rather than effects of the riots, although it also may be too soon — and perhaps too difficult — to pinpoint them. Many factors are at play, says Bidwell, a native of the London borough Hammersmith and Fulham. “If you believe that the fundamental problem in the U.K. is a failure of multiculturalism, then you can look at the riots and say, ‘It’s all about multiculturalism.’ If you believe the problem is the growth of inequality and the problem of unemployment, you can look at this and say, ‘It’s all about inequality and unemployment.’ Or you name it.”

But despite the vantage point, what couldn’t be ignored during the news coverage of the riots were the youthful faces of the perpetrators, the many disenfranchised inner-city kids with declining job prospects, few if any aspirations and little or no qualifications, says Ben Willmott, head of public policy at the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development, a London-based professional body. “There are linkages [between] the riots and unemployment and the ongoing economic downturn, and the youth are finding it hard to get a foothold in a tough labor market.” As a case in point, he cites Haringey, the north London borough where the rioting began and where youth unemployment is double-digit. According to FT.com, unemployment among Haringey residents who are 24 years old and younger is 19.6%, compared with 6.6% overall in the district.

Haringey is by no means unique. Earlier this year, the BBC reported a record high number of 16- to 24-year-olds out of work across the entire country, far higher than the overall rate of 7.9%. The latest figures from the Office for National Statistics show a slight improvement since then — overall unemployment dipped to 7.7% (or 2.45 million Britons) as of May, and the number of unemployed youth fell from a peak of 965,000 to 917,000.

However, the recovery is fragile. “We need to generate jobs and support businesses that give young people a chance,” says Willmott. “It’s in employers’ interests to invest in young people for a number of reasons, including greater social mobility.” That said, he adds, youth unemployment is just one of several undercurrents of this week’s rioting.

Bidwell agrees, pointing out that the rioters who have been arrested and are already appearing before magistrates include an 11-year-old boy and a primary school assistant. “It’s more complex than unemployment,” he says. A down economy combined with the “yawning gulf” in Britain’s social stratification and “the increasingly polarized nature of income levels have not helped.”

FT.com’s riot analysis reveals that a number of London’s boroughs are among the 50 most deprived in England, citing the “Official Index of Multiple Deprivation 2010″ — a ranking of 326 local authorities across the country based on a range of social and economic factors. With a ranking of “1″ indicating the most deprived, Haringey is in 11th place, while Hackney, another London borough heavily affected by the riots, tops the ranking — two boroughs just an Underground stop or two from the swanky offices of London’s financial district.

Bidwell wonders what role the austerity measures — including a proposal to cut 2,000 police officers from a force of 32,000 over four years — being pushed through by Tory Prime Minister David Cameron and his coalition government have had in this week’s riots. A study by the Centre for Economics and Business Research says that between 2010 and 2012, U.K.-wide public spending as a share of GDP is expected to fall by 2.2%, and much more in some of the boroughs most affected by this week’s riots, including Haringey. That’s higher than the OECD average of 2%, and cuts may escalate further between 2012 and 2015.

“[The government is] cutting the deficit far faster than they need to, and far faster than is wise given the economic situation,” says Bidwell. “[For] almost any problem that you think is behind this rioting, this makes it worse.”

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Silicon Valley’s Tech Job Boom: A Growing Bubble?

Recent reports revealing a strong appetite in Silicon Valley for tech jobs and fewer layoffs nationwide of high-tech workers have experts speculating on the next tech boom. “There are a bunch of dots you can join,” says Wharton management professor Matthew Bidwell, who studies patterns in work and employment. “There is increasing speculation on whether we are looking at another tech bubble.”

The U.S. as a whole may be hemorrhaging jobs, but Silicon Valley’s information, communications and technology (ICT) companies are expected to grow technology jobs by 15% in the next two years, according to a recent study by a cluster of workforce boards in that region. Sixty percent of Silicon Valley’s ICT employers plan to have more full- and part-time employees 12 months from now, the study found. The report, which included a survey of 251 ICT companies, counts nearly 7,500 ICT establishments in Silicon Valley employing more than 215,609 workers, whose earnings average $182,000 a year.

Also, fewer high-tech workers are being laid off nationwide in 2011 compared to last year, according to a report by Challenger, Gray & Christmas, an outplacement consulting firm. U.S. electronics, computers and telecommunications industries shed 14,308 jobs in the first half of 2011, down 60% from the 35,375 jobs cut in the same time period last year, the report says.

Silicon Valley’s thirst for tech workers is led by the growth prospects of social networking companies, several of which are in the midst of raising capital through initial public offerings (IPOs). But Bidwell sees some worrisome trends in the valuations commanded by LinkedIn and others with IPO plans including Facebook, group-buying site Groupon and social networking game developer Zynga. “All these companies are commanding valuations that take you back to the dotcom era,” he says. “They are basically not making profits or making small profits, but are valued at extraordinary multiples.”

The Silicon Valley workforce board report maintains that ICT companies are “emerging from recession into a new period of growth and opportunity.” But the region also faces a talent shortage, especially for highly skilled workers, it adds. “As long as companies can find that talent in Silicon Valley, they will continue to grow, but in some highly specialized areas there is actually a talent shortage and that is a hindrance to growth,” says Kris Stadelman, executive director at Nova, one of the study’s participating workforce boards that represents a seven-city consortium including Palo Alto and Sunnyvale.

The report also forecasts a spurt in demand in the next 12 months for software engineers and project managers (10.8%), field applications engineers (20% plus) and quality assurance engineers (12.3%). Employers may not find all that talent in the Valley, and some of those jobs may spill over to other high-tech hubs like Austin, Tex., or even Singapore, the report says.

According to Stadelman, these trends are not necessarily going to lead to “a boom in technology manufacturing jobs, and are unlikely to trigger a nationwide demand for similar jobs or lead an economic recovery.” Bidwell agrees. He recalls how the dotcom boom of the late 1990s “spurred enormous demand in a whole lot of related fields” — such as telecom companies that needed equipment to build out infrastructure for the Internet, lay fiber optic lines and so forth. “The Groupons and Facebooks will not create demand for that many jobs in other industries. [The effect] will be more localized.”

Stadelman, in fact, doesn’t want her cluster’s study to generate unbridled optimism. “You have to look at the upside and the downside,” she says, pointing out that Cisco recently announced 6,500 layoffs. “I hope we don’t have another boom. Every time you have a boom you have a bust – one follows the other.”

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